Who pays the police? Who makes the law?

[Papa C.]

I recently heard a human rights commentator claim that: "We, as citizens, pay the police (though our taxes) to uphold our laws."

I would see it more as: we pay the Government taxes on pain of financial penalties or imprisonment or both. The Government pays the police to uphold the law. The law is made by the Government through the senate and regular people have no direct say in law making.

In conclusion:
Tax payers don't make laws, high paid Government ministers do.
Police don't uphold OUR laws. They uphold the laws that the Governmet makes whether that benefits us or not.
We are forced to pay taxes or risk imprisonment, losing your voice and your vote. As far as I know once you go to prison you lose your right vote. Is this true?

What do you think? Can we start a discussion on this?

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Yeah I think thats the case alright. But "they" will say that the government are the people, or are at least elected by the people. If the government increases taxes, well thats the electrorates "fault".

But of course, representative democracy is a farce. I think one of the strongest pieces of ideology holding this system together is that belief in representative democracy. Its the "illusion" of our time. The God of past. And I really dont think revolutionaries have directed enough attention to unmasking the processes of power and class control rel;ating to representative democracy.

I still dont know how the decison was made for Britain to go to war with Iraq, or who was pulling the strings, for example.

But on a related point regarding the state. Iv argued there on other forums that I believe states to be self perpetuating and self defining entities of violence.

For example, in order for an election to take place to vote in a government (or indeed "legitimate" the state), there first needs to be an 'electorate'. In most cases, this electorate is defined by the state, to legitimate the state.

Ie, we are Irish citizens and can therefore vote to 'legitimate' the state. But we are Irish citizens not by choice, but by capitulation to state coercion.

So in my reckoning, states, or indeed violence itself, is self legitimating - and in the case with states, self perpetuating.

This might just go for a socialist state too. I dont believe a socialist state could be 'representative' or that democratic process is enough for its legitimacy. Instead the social role of the state itself, and its violence, should be looked at.