Sinn Féin and the Bin Charges

[ceart]

I noted that SF in Dublin South County Council voted for the estimates recently. The estimates is the budget for the council. The important part of it for me, is the unjust bin charges.

Some SF cllrs have been voting for the estimates since last year. So, i would like to raise the question, do people on the forum believe that SF have sold out the bin charges?

And also suggestions on the fight can be escalated would be appreciated or do people believe that the fight is over?

Cheers!!

[Papa C.]

I think like Labour and the Greens, Sinn Fein use campaigns like the bin charges to gain support and admiration from working class people. I'm sure they will take part in it until it is no longer popular and then forget about it.

Wait until they get into Government and see the make over they go through just like filthy capitalist and imperialist supporter John Gormley has gone through. I haven't seen a smile on his face since the election. He's a 'leader' now. He's one of them.

Of course I don't support the bin charges. It's like paying for water. We pay enough bleedin tax though VAT, stamp duty, fuel duty, income tax and paying taxes like road tolls to private developers also. What a disgrace but you will always find this in a capitalist country. The only alternative is a Socialist Republic where working people can make democratic decisions on a daily basis and determine their own destiny as a whole.

[ceart]

Yes, i agree with all points you raised. I was a member of SF for sometime myself and they gained massive support from communities for their initial position and activity around this issue.
I was having a debate with a shinner about this, and he doesn't view SF cllrs voting for the estimates as a sell out of the anti-bin tax campaign. But he said "where the conflict in SF comes in is where cllrs have been working on projects in there area's and getting funding for these projects is tied up in the estimates, there would be uneasiness with voting against the funding for the projects"
"the people who argue in favour, don't argue in favour of bin charges or service charges but in voting against the no to estimates as a means of fighting it." He firmly believes that SF have not sold out this campaign. He believes that it is only a sell-out when SF come out and state that people should pay these charges!!!!

I find this justification pathetic. SF should have took a principled stand against the politics of the Free State and place the blame for the crisis where it lies - with developers that have created and exploited the housing bubble, made millions which was all facilitated through the current political institutions.
I could go on and on here ... But i am more interested to hear what others have to say!!

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Jan 2, 2009 23:38:18 GMT ceart said:

I noted that SF in Dublin South County Council voted for the estimates recently. The estimates is the budget for the council. The important part of it for me, is the unjust bin charges.

Some SF cllrs have been voting for the estimates since last year. So, i would like to raise the question, do people on the forum believe that SF have sold out the bin charges?

And also suggestions on the fight can be escalated would be appreciated or do people believe that the fight is over?

Cheers!!

I was involved in the anti-bintax campaign in dublin south when it started, and until I moved out of dublin.

There was always hostility to SF in it. At one of the demonstrations a fight broke out over a SP member chanting negative comments about SF down the megaphone.

It was something like that SF supported the bin charges in rural ireland and elsewhere, but in Dublin they opposed it - which was rightfully seen as a double standard.

I wouldnt trust SF on anything. I dont think they have any principles or solid foundations and are more like populists than anything. All things to all people.

It would seem the fight against the bin charges is over. I see the odd poster in windows in Drimnagh though. Family in Crumlin, Ballyer and Drimnagh still havnt paid and I think they throw their rubbish into the trucks themselves.

The charge itself is good and bad. It has its good points and encourages people to recycle (to an extent). It was a double tax though. People were already paying for it from their PRSI, and still are. It was also brought in to pave the way for private companies which are now widespread around the country. No doubt every new estate built over the last number of years are served by private collections. Mine is anyway.

From what i can see, the fight is over and the charges are in. It seems there is still mass non-payments though. Not sure how this is sustained. Maybe there are meetings still being organized and information leaflets going about to encourage people to resist.

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Joan Collins in my view is the only prominant activist to have been totally genuine during the campaign. Brid Smith SWP and SP members had alterior agenda's of promoting their party over their rivals. Though JC is in PBP now, she wasnt concerned with any of that.

[Papa C.]

Family in Crumlin, Ballyer and Drimnagh still havnt paid and I think they throw their rubbish into the trucks themselves.

Fair play to them. I'd love to see more of this.

Recycling is a good thing but the only problem I would have is that the money mainly goes to private companies and not public projects. In my area we pay to have our recycling taken away and then they make money from the materials we give. It's like paying to give companies raw materials. – Isn’t that nuts?! They get free raw materials from us and we have to pay them for it? I remember when they used to pay us to give them raw materials. They should do it for free.

As long as capitalism continues in Ireland this kind of thing will happen. It is not the bin tax we should be fighting per se, it is Government rule and the Capitalist system. We need to educate the people and make them understand that the Government will allow private developers to make money through whatever means no matter who it hurts. We are constantly paying for the Government's squandering of our taxes. Okay, the Irish Government isn't entirely responsible for the current recession but it is their fault they chose to depend on the US to fund our economy. They left themselves completely open to the 'world' recession.

We need to struggle for an alternative. One viable alternative is the Socialist Republic.