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Post by RedFlag32 on Jun 30, 2008 10:09:04 GMT
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jun 30, 2008 22:21:22 GMT
He touches on so many points in those two video's. I think he's spot on, especially when he mentiones that there are thousands of left leaning people out there who have nowhere to go. Its just so true.
Left sectarianism is IMO probably the biggest problem we face. All the failures can be attributed to it. The Bin Tax platform is just one example, where the SWP put Brid Smith up in the same constituency as Joan Collins, and they both lost a seat by a narrow enough margin.
The SWP and SP are the two most sectarian organisations by-far.
IMO, left sectarianism is caused partly by the organisational structure of the various parties and orgs. Those in power want to steer the course of any campaign and grow their own movement to make themselves more powerful. The two least internally democratic organisations are the SWP and SP, and they are the ones who do the most petty forms of recruitment and headhunting.
I read an account of an ex SWP member in NI who describes what its like inside, ill have a look for it.
Anyway, if the power structures are changed within, then the motvation for shunning other groups and aggressive recruitment drives I think would change.
There is even a recruitment quota in the SWP AFAIK.
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Post by voxpopuli on Jul 4, 2008 22:27:11 GMT
Best thing that could happen to most of the Irish left would be if they were wiped out. They have absolutely no contribution beyond the narrow confines of Trotskyite dogma. You'd think after so many years of the same monotonous work they'd change or re-evaluate tactics, but this isn't the case. Their arrogance prevails and they end up taking opportunist approaches to questions such as water charges and bin tax, making them into an issue of 'non-payment, when the real issue is the privatisation of water and bins.
The only difference is, non-payment is built from the lowest common denominator and when the time comes, the predictions of 'mass non-payment' never come to fruition. Further, fighting against water privatisation would need to rely on the rank and file in the trade unions, the only mass organisation of the Irish working class.
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Post by soldieroflife on Jul 6, 2008 12:18:13 GMT
Of course this left sectarianism exists and it is something i experienced personally as i'm sure many have.within college politics it is actuallu amazing the sectarianism that goes on,the stakes are so small,practically non-existent yet the emphasis is not upon progress and education but on elitism and developing your sect into the most powerful one.
labour as a party in the 26 counties is a fine example of failure from a promising leftist organisation.potentially it was a broad sheet under which the goal was the defeat of capitalism and the forwarding of left wing policies.
however personalities and snobbery appear in every organisation and nowadays the leadership of labour would abandon every principal they wish they had for a shot at power.
when you abandon your ideals and delve into the realms of oppertunism it is an endless road.for when you shift your principals for others it is just as easy to move on from there again,where do you stop?
leftist groups need all the assistance they can get and i honestly think there are many untapped socialist minds in every community.unfortunately there is no organisation where people with tentative thoughts towards leftism can flourish and expand their ideas in a democaratic group without being ridiculed and told to obey party line.
this sectarianism leads to needless alienation.this is why i do not particularly belief in a distinct leadership of a group,but in a collective one which should be changed every once in a while.when you have one distinct leader or a handful of power hunger individuals it leads to problems.it doesnt come down to fighting for the workers but fighting for themselves.personalities may clash and a major figure leaves,leading to an exodus.this should never happen.
socialist groups should be in costant discussion and harmonise wherever there is the oppertunity.we often first seek what it is that divides us rather than stand on common ground together.the overall picture should always come before short term power struggles.it leads to the degradation of the group,the membership and hte struggle as a whole.unity will not come from just discussion,but from action.grand public debates and solidarity campaigns should be organised.a resolve should be built amoung all the leftists,not a sense of sectarianism and simple loyalty to one sect
“We must be vigilant that we don't sink into the morass of sectarianism, mixing, pettiness etc. We must not get involved in unprincipled slanging matches etc, into positions that are sectarian, anti-revolutionary, morally damaging, that give succour to the enemy and that confuse and divide the working class.”
Ta Power
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Post by redrevolutionary on Jul 7, 2008 20:00:42 GMT
But the labour party in Ireland has always been riven with Leftist Sectarian beliefs.
Look no further than Jim Larkin, great Socialist but was also an egotist and completely single minded.
He alienated alot of people, a kind of my way or the high way attitude.
Everyone here seems to agree with his arguments on Leftist Sectarianism.
But what will we do now that it is agreed upon.
Maybe if everyone involved in there respective parties started pushing for a sort of national congress involving the different socialist groups?
or is this even feasable?
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Post by Papa C. on Jan 3, 2009 19:22:28 GMT
I think to have a national congress of socialist parties/ organisations might be a good idea but you have the problem of corruption. For instance look at the National Congress of Trade Unions. You could hardly call this revolutionary.
Some questions would have to be answered. For instance what happens if 4 member organisations ratify a reactionary plan of action whilst leaving 1 organisation out. Does that mean the plan of action is ratified? Do all organisations have to vote 'yes' to a plan of action? I know these questions are a bit down the line but I think these questions have to be answered as a national congress of socialist organisations needs to be revolutionary otherwise its a waste of time.
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