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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jun 6, 2008 22:07:21 GMT
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Post by anticapitalist on Jun 6, 2008 22:52:06 GMT
It's got so much in it, that i never knew, very interesting from start to finish, so please C16 don't feel pressure to help me with it all i will have to try figure it out for myself
the part that related to the other thread, was in connection with subordination, and the army council accepting having to answer to the political section. it's very a very complex subject, especially about all military operations having a political motive.
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jun 6, 2008 23:01:37 GMT
Its not just complex, but difficult to put into practice.
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Post by Papa C. on Jun 7, 2008 9:15:57 GMT
It's got so much in it, that i never knew, very interesting from start to finish, so please C16 don't feel pressure to help me with it all i will have to try figure it out for myself the part that related to the other thread, was in connection with subordination, and the army council accepting having to answer to the political section. it's very a very complex subject, especially about all military operations having a political motive. I think it is very important that the Army follows the wishes of the people. If there is any sort of attack by the Army it needs to be supported by the people or the Army will turn out like the provos and be forced to disband. I think if we are to discuss this we should try and get a lot more people to come in on the dicussion especially those in the likes of the RSM. I haven't read the whole document but if I can find the time I'd like to take part. Dangeresque and RF32 will probably go spare as I didn't put much support into their previous attempts to start discussion but I couldn't even find the time to read the documents! |
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Post by anticapitalist on Jun 7, 2008 14:44:09 GMT
[/quote]
If the I.N.L.A were to disband then it would be a terrible shame and a sad day for Irish republicanism, but public oppinon through these garda led media publications are destroying it's liberation task, type of image
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Post by anticapitalist on Jun 7, 2008 21:35:44 GMT
I noticed the thread was blocked by a mod today on the captured rifle, over on the I.R.S.P forum, maybe we should not be discussing such issues here either?
i would appreciate fairness in reply to this question, do you think that maybe as some of us are not party members, and i am really speaking for myself, as i am , for sure, not affiliated inanyway to it,
and because of this, is it inappropriate for me to discuss, question, or propose, any thing in relation to these subjects that are in the Ta power document and connected to the party or other.
this is just a thought i got, and would really appreciate a fair reply?
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Post by Papa C. on Jun 10, 2008 14:58:52 GMT
I think that's part of the struggle. There needs to be proper PR excersises going on or the right-wing propaganda will get the better of any army.
We are not the IRSP, IRSM or INLA, nor are we bound by the rules of said organisations. We are independent Republican Socialists and we can discuss
whatever we please.
We are only discussing these topics idealistically and in theory. Few here are connected with the IRSM even if we do share their beliefs.
If the INLA were to cease to exist/ if that barrier was gone, the state forces would find it very hard to arrest anyone involved in the IRSM under section 30. Section 30 of the criminal jusitce act is a human rights violation. There is no defense what-so-ever from it except, perhaps, public outcry. But if the people don't know they can't fight back. The section basically implies that if the Gardai want to arrest you, they will and there's nothing you can do about it. It is a diplock court, the same courts as used during the time of internment in the north. You are stood in front of 3 senior judges, there is no jury, no cameras, a garda officer gives evidence against you and the state judge makes the decision on how many years you will do. The Department of Justice called trial by jury 'the most basic right in a democracy'. Hence, even in the eyes of the state is is anti-democratic.
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Post by anticapitalist on Jun 10, 2008 22:14:42 GMT
Great post,
hopefully this will be a long drawn out debate, without nitpicking, against each other, and with an understanding that we are humans trying to overcome problems, to achieve our rights, and to improve our standards of living, and as we are lucky to have this opportunity to discuss what effects all of our lives and futures, lets make the most of it to get a better view.
My oppinion is that, in no way, should there be any moves towards standing down the military wing, especially in the occupied 6, the peace that holds there at present is not in place long enough, and the amount of bigotry, and sectarianism, is evident with the heckling of our president in Derry today.
We have to hand it to our people who live up there for showing such restraint in face of the enemy, don't think i could bare to look at the symbols or personell of the occupiers, without loosing it.
afaik this offences against the state act is open to question, in relation to evidence rules, by the U.N human rights commitee under the international covenant on civil and political rights, but since September 11th these evidence rules have been much harder to challenge.
you are spot on about the PR problems and these were
very well highlighted on the IRSP forum by some posters, with some great suggestions on how improve it, but on the Ta Power document, the section on, if you have an existing leadership dominated by military thinkers who attempt to impose a military solution to what is essentially a political problem, in this case lets say the drug situation in Dublin that is overtaking the good PR,
This problem should not get any more priority from the movement than lets say, the health service, or how hotel staff are paid less than other workers, the list is huge on what should be addressed, and the reason for starting this thread was, due to no posters being available for the Lisbon treaty, an important political opportunity to make public awareness, become positive, i know it is harder for a party that is covering the whole devided island, but if it is serious about making changes for all the people then, it will have to change itself, i have always admired how it achieved to survive, but it is disheartening to read these articles that are being written nearly everyday, if they are accurate or not.
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Post by redrevolutionary on Jul 7, 2008 20:12:13 GMT
I firmly believe that the INLA should only be used as a defensive machinisation of the IRSP at this current stage.
Although it could be utilised by the IRSP for certain community actions, eg the recent actions in Strabane.
In any case the INLA must be fully answerable to the IRSP.
And as Ta said 'A must always lead to B', not the other way around.
Military action is not the be all and end all of Republican Socialists, it is merely a tool that must only be used when necessary and when it will further the cause of the Republican Socialist struggle.
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Post by untilvictory32 on Nov 7, 2008 4:02:08 GMT
I firmly believe that the INLA should only be used as a defensive machinisation of the IRSP at this current stage. Although it could be utilised by the IRSP for certain community actions, eg the recent actions in Strabane. In any case the INLA must be fully answerable to the IRSP. And as Ta said 'A must always lead to B', not the other way around. Military action is not the be all and end all of Republican Socialists, it is merely a tool that must only be used when necessary and when it will further the cause of the Republican Socialist struggle. Seamus knew that the INLA was a tool to be used when necessary and he made it very clear that armed struggle alone could not bring the national question to rest. |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 18, 2008 23:18:26 GMT
Its not just complex, but difficult to put into practice. Comrade, id be interesdted in hearing why you think it is very hard to put into practice. Not out of any disbelief but because i think we might be on the same wave lenght regarding the uses of an armed wing. |
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Post by untilvictory32 on Nov 25, 2008 4:05:42 GMT
Its not just complex, but difficult to put into practice. Comrade, id be interesdted in hearing why you think it is very hard to put into practice. Not out of any disbelief but because i think we might be on the same wave lenght regarding the uses of an armed wing. |
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