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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 5, 2007 23:33:29 GMT
I have been reading a book at the moment called "solitude",it is written by a sociologist and it basically details the importance of the self,and the importance of spending time alone. It states that it is a myth that the only way to achieve happyness is to pair off and get married for instance. That is only one argument in the book,but it touches on all the widely held beliefs about solitude and the self.
It got me thinking about socialist doctrine and the tendency to put a major emphasis on the colective and to not give importance to the person as an individual. That infact is one argument in the book,he gives out about socialists belief that the state or collective is more important than the individual.
I personally dont see anything wrong with putting society ahead of oneself,but do you think that we as Marxists or Socialists dont put enough importance into the working class man/woman as an individual? If so,what are the concequences?
I also believe that alot of people do think socialism puts too much emphasis on groups and collectives and not on the individuals happyness,some people percieve socialism to be anti-self happyness. They think they would be forced to be subordinate to the state and the collectives. If a socialist Ireland was ever to be realised,how would we tackle this issue? Are humans naturally communal or are we naturally individualistic? Maybe we should nurture both aspects to human behavour? Let me now what you think.
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Nov 6, 2007 0:43:36 GMT
Interesting you brought this up, because I was just reading a thread on another forum which touches on this.... www.whywork.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=101"culturalpessimist" writes.....By the way, in the German Ideology, Marx and Engels frequently refer to the individual's "self-activity". They mention the collective good only in the context that *capitalism* subjugates the individual good to the collective good, by forcing her into a particular sphere of activity. Communism isn't good because everyone helps everyone else but because everyone does what he wants: Quotes Marx: Obviously, Marx was far too optimistic in predicting this, but his philosophy was much more individual-centered than capitalists typically assume. I grew up believing that Marx was strongly anti-individualistic; The Communist Manifesto and The German Ideology completely disproved me.Iv never really thought of communism in a collective sort of way, or an individual way, but a mixture of both. More freedom and personal expression for the individual - in every way, but while having a sense of community and a social responsibility. |
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Post by herensuge on Nov 6, 2007 18:34:01 GMT
My belief is this, the group is made of individuals and individuals can not achieve much alone. We work together to do everything. Is it interesting much of our brain's activity is used on communication? Why would we be so socially inclined if we are meant to be alone? I think you need to respect the individual as the core of the group. We a individals lie as individuals and learn as indiviudals. The group as the base of the individual. The group allows us to develop relationships and personalities, aspects of a society and culture. This is proof they are equally important.
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 6, 2007 20:26:30 GMT
Yes and even in capitalist society you could not say the opposite is true,that they put more importance on the individuals happyness and ability. Capitalist society relies heavely on people working together (butcher,baker and candle stick maker) its just that we dont recieve an equal share of the wealth.
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 12, 2007 7:47:20 GMT
Yes and even in capitalist society you could not say the opposite is true,that they put more importance on the individuals happyness and ability. Capitalist society relies heavely on people working together (butcher,baker and candle stick maker) its just that we dont recieve an equal share of the wealth. I'd agree with you that capitalism actually offers little chance for individual fulfillment, as the majority live lives of drudgery. Cooperation is as you say just as necessary under industrialisation in capitalist society as socialist. Labour is social. |
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 12, 2007 7:49:42 GMT
It got me thinking about socialist doctrine and the tendency to put a major emphasis on the colective and to not give importance to the person as an individual. That infact is one argument in the book,he gives out about socialists belief that the state or collective is more important than the individual. Marxism doesn't put an emphasis on the individual because it's not its area of study. It's not that it would deny the importance of the individual, only that its focus is on the big picture. There is much of life that Marxism can't answer, or doesn't even touch upon. I prefer to emphasise that myself; I think it's important to avoid the approach that embraces socialism as some religious like message of Ultimate Truth, rather than a philosophy of revolutionary praxis. |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 12, 2007 16:51:33 GMT
Thats a good point, i think people assume we think we can solve all of lifes problems. Socialism after all is only an economic system really.
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 13, 2007 5:44:01 GMT
Thats a good point, i think people assume we think we can solve all of lifes problems. Socialism after all is only an economic system really. Yeah, exactly. that's what I was trying to say like. socialism can just give people a better chance to make happier lives for themselves, it can't make em happy and satisfied. |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 13, 2007 20:29:35 GMT
Thats a good point, i think people assume we think we can solve all of lifes problems. Socialism after all is only an economic system really. Yeah, exactly. that's what I was trying to say like. socialism can just give people a better chance to make happier lives for themselves, it can't make em happy and satisfied. Only i can do that,for i am the wizard! |
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 13, 2007 21:16:46 GMT
Yeah, exactly. that's what I was trying to say like. socialism can just give people a better chance to make happier lives for themselves, it can't make em happy and satisfied. Only i can do that,for i am the wizard! Please wave your wand in my direction. ;D And no, that's not an innuendo... |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 13, 2007 21:47:45 GMT
hahahahaha
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