Revolution in Venezuela?

[RedFlag32]

The struggle in Venezuela and Latin America deserves our fullest attention, there are those who would not call Chavez a Marxist or even a socialist,there are also those on the left who see the revolutionary possibilities of what is occurring in Latin America.

This thread will be here for you to give your opinion and for open debate. Please post any links in relation to this so that we can all learn more as we debate,and maybe change our outlook. I know personally my opinion still is not settled,so i will look forward to hear what others have to say.

www.handsoffvenezuela.org/home/

www.venezuelanalysis.com/

web.onetel.com/~vheadline/emergency.htm

www.boliviasc.org.uk/

www.colombiasolidarity.org.uk/

www.cuba-solidarity.org/

www.venezuelasolidarity.org.uk/

www.vensolidarity.org/

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Good topic, and an excellent idea for a forum in general ;D

I gave my badly explained opinion on chavez in another thread. I think the revolution is not socialist. I am not convinced. I would love to see what exactly is going on first hand because im finding it dificult to see through the propaganda on both sides.

Whats your opinion RF, what are your doubts (if you have any)?

Also, I dont think buying military weapons is best when much of a population live in poverty....

english.pravda.ru/world/americas/16-06-2006/82082-Venezuela-0

www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/world/americas/25venez.html?ei=5088&en=25be50a9a3dfea93&ex=1330059600&pagewanted=print

[Papa C.]

barry said:

I would love to see what exactly is going on first hand because im finding it dificult to see through the propaganda on both sides.

Comrade, have you seen 'The Revolution will not be Televised'? It might clean up some of your propaganda doubts.

Personally I would see Chavez's developments as socially geared but not yet socialist. When the working class are in control of their own affairs and instruments of control, only then can it be called socialist.

I would think Chavez is certainly a working class hero in Venezuela and has awakened the need for a world revolution. As well as that he shows how socialism can be built peacefully which is something that will anger the capitalists in the west.

Venezuela is an oil rich country and Chavez is the only one who would spread teh wealth. I think those who haven't read up on the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela should do so as it is very interesting and excellent for working class/ anti-capitalist politics.

He and his comrades are certainly needed. The ruling class in teh western world is at war with Chavez and the whole world is watching. Viva Chavez!

[RedFlag32]

To be honest my doubts are starting to disapear,at the begining it was hard to understand what he was doing,but i think his slow approach is simply because of the large number of anti-revolutionaries in the country, and the fact that it is a very poor country will always mean that it will not be what a socialist revolution is ment to be like.

Socialism cannot survive in backward countries so it will be interesting to see how long he can hold out,if he gets the support of other south American countries it will help him greatly.I think his idea for setting up a united socialist party also shows he is serious about revolution.

I think it should ge all the support we can give,maybe this is the only chance we will get to see an actual revolution in our lifetimes. Revolution doesnt always occur the way we plan it after all.

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Comrade, have you seen 'The Revolution will not be Televised'? It might clean up some of your propaganda doubts.

Yep, about 4 weeks ago. It had some influence, though my opinion changed throughout watching it - in the end, coming off with greater support for Chavez. To be honest, I cant really remember what exactly my criticism of the docu was - my memory is like a siv*.

When the working class are in control of their own affairs and instruments of control, only then can it be called socialist.

The main problem I have is with the state, and I have many questions hovering about.

Which class is in control of the state? and if it is not the working, then is it possible for the ruling class to simply give over control, be it gradually, to them? - despite class contradictions and conflict.

Who creates the institutions of "democracy" and workers participation and control - is it the state? - or have these been created from below?

I see it as hypocritical of the left when they boast about Chavez being "democratically" elected and then when it suits them to put down right-wing "democratically" elected leaders - Thatcher for example. Both Chavez and Thatcher have been elected through bourgeois democratic systems. Both have reached "democratic" electoral victory through their alliance and access to capital - something the ordinary peasant or worker is incapable of - it is still democracy for the rich.

What do those bourgeois who invested in Chavez get for their money? - ie. Spanish banking institutions who financed his political campaign.


What exactly is Chavez "going on". Is it his class consciousness - by which he is not working class, or some sort of bourgeois charitable conscience.

What is the process by which Chavez strengthens the power of the state - not only by tooling up with million dollar fighter jets and military equipment - but by nationalizing (not socialising) industries - - when the state is not controlled by workers from square one.

They are some of the questions I have in criticism and feel skeptical about.


RF

Socialism cannot survive in backward countries so it will be interesting to see how long he can hold out,if he gets the support of other south American countries it will help him greatly.I think his idea for setting up a united socialist party also shows he is serious about revolution.

Good points.

think it should ge all the support we can give,maybe this is the only chance we will get to see an actual revolution in our lifetimes. Revolution doesnt always occur the way we plan it after all.

I agree with giving him as much support as possible, though I think ill hold my breath as to whether this is socialism "in-action".

As of now - I am seeing it as a bunch of propaganda and rhetoric. I want to see some change in the class system, not just wealth disparity.

As Caoimhain said - Viva Chavez!

[Papa C.]

redflag32 said:

To be honest my doubts are starting to disapear,at the begining it was hard to understand what he was doing,but i think his slow approach is simply because of the large number of anti-revolutionaries in the country, and the fact that it is a very poor country will always mean that it will not be what a socialist revolution is ment to be like.

Socialism cannot survive in backward countries so it will be interesting to see how long he can hold out,if he gets the support of other south American countries it will help him greatly.I think his idea for setting up a united socialist party also shows he is serious about revolution.

I think it should ge all the support we can give,maybe this is the only chance we will get to see an actual revolution in our lifetimes. Revolution doesnt always occur the way we plan it after all.

Comrade, Venezuela is far from a poor country, with its resources I mean. I read an article a while back which stated that it had enough oil to export, something like, 70,000 barrells a day for the next 150 years. I'm not sure if that was exactly what the article stated but it was one hell of a lot of oil. Chavez is now using this oil in exchange for cuban doctors and nurses, he is using it to give money to the working classes which is where it should be going. I wish the Irish Government would do same :roll:


Just remember, comrades, that when you watch SkyNews, BBC, RTE, TV3, UTV, FOX, ABC etcetera, these media are all 'singing from Washington's hymn sheet' and thus are never going to hail Chavez as any a hero or show the good he is doing, instead they will focus on the problems the right wing have with him. They'll try to be independent but will ultimately sing the praises of Washington and their cohorts.

[RedFlag32]

admin said:

Comrade, Venezuela is far from a poor country, with its resources I mean. I read an article a while back which stated that it had enough oil to export, something like, 70,000 barrells a day for the next 150 years. I'm not sure if that was exactly what the article stated but it was one hell of a lot of oil. Chavez is now using this oil in exchange for cuban doctors and nurses, he is using it to give money to the working classes which is where it should be going. I wish the Irish Government would do same :roll:

My point is that it is poor because that oil has been used to line th epockets of a minority for so long,it will take time for Chavez to make that moeny work for the majority again. I still would class venezuela poor.


]

[dangeresque]

one piece of advice that was put to us by an IRSM leading member: learn Spanish

[RedFlag32]

dangeresque said:

one piece of advice that was put to us by an IRSM leading member: learn Spanish

Funny you should say that as i was considering it very seriously lately.

[RedFlag32]

Venezuela takes over refineries

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6610333.stm

Venezuela has said that it has taken control of the massive Orinoco Belt
oil projects as part of President Hugo Chavez's nationalisation drive.

Many of the world's biggest oil companies agreed to transfer operational
control to the government.

Bolivia's President Evo Morales said his country's takeover of gas fields
one year ago had been "a blessing".

Mr Chavez has also said he wants to pull Venezuela out of the
International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.

See a map of the oil fields, projects and companies affected

This is the true nationalisation of our natural resources
Hugo Chavez

The president said he had ordered Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas to
begin formal proceedings to withdraw from the two international bodies.

President Chavez has spoken of his ambition to set up what he calls a Bank
of the South, backed by Venezuelan oil revenues, which would finance
projects in South America.

Negotiations

Four projects taken over in the Orinoco Belt - which can refine about
600,000 barrels of crude oil a day - reverted to state control at midnight
local time.

Mr Chavez told cheering workers that foreign oil companies had damaged
Venezuela's national interests and that reclaiming them represented an
historic victory.

"This is the true nationalisation of our natural resources," the president
said during a ceremony at the Jose Oil processing plant.

"Today we are closing a perverse cycle."

State oil company PDVSA will control at least 60% of the projects, which
have been ceded by ConocoPhillips, Chevron, Exxon Mobil, BP, Statoil and
Total.

Negotiations are continuing about continuing shareholdings and the
possibility of compensation for the refineries.

Venezuela has only considered agreements based on the book value of the
projects rather than their much larger current net worth.

Mr Ramirez has said that there may not be compensation at all in some cases.

More surprises

Meanwhile, in Bolivia, the state energy company YPFB said that it would
take control of producing and marketing oil and natural gas in the
country.

It comes a year after Bolivian President Evo Morales, in his May Day
address, shocked international investors by seizing control of the energy
industry.

In this year's May Day address, Mr Morales promised to take greater
control of the economy from foreign companies.

"If we really want to live in a dignified Bolivia then we must take the
path of anti-imperialism, anti-liberalism and anti-colonialism my
friends," he said.

The government had hoped to finish nationalising the telecoms industry by
May Day, but talks with Telecom Italia - which owns half of the biggest
telecoms company - are currently stalled.

Telecom Italia said last week that it was considering seeking
international arbitration over the sale of Entel after Bolivia issued two
decrees aimed at renationalising the company.

To the north, in Nicaragua, President Daniel Ortega led a May Day march
through the capital, Managua.

Mr Ortega returned to power earlier this year. In the 1980s and 1990s his
Sandinista government fought US-funded Contra rebels.

On Sunday, he said he was negotiating with the IMF "to leave the Fund" and
that he hoped to "get out of the prison" of IMF debt.

[RedFlag32]

Venezuela seizes foreign oil fields

Larry Elliott





06 May 2007 11:59

Thousands of Venezualan workers took control of foreign-owned oil fields on Monday as Hugo Chávez stepped up his battle with Washington in a new wave of nationalisation and an announcement that the country was leaving the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF).


Amid jubilant scenes, oil workers wearing red T-shirts emblazoned with “yes to nationalisation” moved into the giant Orinoco Basin shortly after midnight after Caracas insisted six of the world’s biggest oil companies cede operational control.

Three United States companies --ConocoPhillips, Chevron and Exxon Mobil together with BP, Norway’s Statoil and France’s Total agreed to transfer operational control to state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela.


In carefully orchestrated moves designed to inflame concerns in the Bush administration about the new wave of left-wing populism in Latin America, the oil giants have been forced to accept a minority stake in joint ventures after Chávez said he was ending an era of US-prescribed policies designed to open Venezuela’s oil industry to foreign investment.


“President Chávez has ordered us to take full control over the sovereignty of our oil, and we are doing that today,” Venezuela’s Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez told state television at the oil installations shortly after midnight. “In this very instant our oil workers are taking control of each of the areas of each of the installations.”


The Orinoco Basin, 590km long and 68km wide, stretches along the Orinoco River in eastern Venezuela and is believed to hold the world’s largest crude oil reserves. Vene­zuela says it could hold as much as 370-billion barrels, compared with the country’s current oil reserves of about 80-billion barrels.


Chávez followed up the move with a strong attack on the Washington-based Bank and IMF, accusing them of exploiting small countries. The two organisations were “mechanisms of North American imperialism”, he said.


After using oil receipts to pay off $3-billion to the international financial institutions last month, Chávez said he wanted to “formalise” his country’s exit from the Bank and Fund. “We are going to withdraw ... and let them pay back what they took from us,” he said, claiming the organisations were “in crisis”.


Chávez is keen for Latin America to loosen its ties with the US by setting up a Banco del Sur, or Bank of the South, to replace the World Bank and the IMF.


A spokesperson for the IMF said that it had not been formally notified of Venezuela’s decision to withdraw, but the IMF’s deputy managing director, Murilo Portugal, said he regretted the decision.


“It’s a member that’s been in the fund for a long period; it is an important country,’’ Portugal said in Nairobi.


The Centre for Economic Policy Research, a Washington-based think tank, said that the IMF’s “support” for the botched coup against Chávez five years ago might have influenced the decision to pull out of the fund and the Bank.


The centre said that within four hours of the ultimately unsuccessful attempt to unseat Chávez, an IMF spokesperson was pledging to work with the new regime.


An IMF spokesperson this weekstrongly denied that the IMF had supported the coup, adding that the spokesperson had been responding to a hypothetical question at a press conference. -- © Guardian News & Media Ltd 2007

[Seabird]

While I agree that Chavez has done much to help in his country I do not care for his treatment toward his own people. From what I know he is a dictator, ruling with a politically motivated policing service. He says his country is a democratic socialist nation when in reality the people have no say in their own government, they are very poor and must apply for the right to work. He tells you what business you may have and not have. I have a friend that had to apply for the rights to open a cafe and now most of proceeds go to the government for the right to have a business; I call that slave labor. He like most dictators paint a pretty picture for the world to see when in reality the people are ruled by fear and intimidation.

Someone please explain to me how you can have a socialist revolution in a country that you govern? Are you at war with your self?