Ahern going out in May

[anticapitalist]

What impact does anyone see Ahern's stepping down, having on F.F, could this be the start for a serious change in government at the next general election.

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

What impact does anyone see Ahern's stepping down, having on F.F, could this be the start for a serious change in government at the next general election.

I think its difficult to tell what effects it might have, if any.

Sure I dont know how FF got elected again in the last elections, every single person i talked to were not voting FF.

So who are these voters? - it can only be either 1) party members 2) old people 3) non-political traditional voters 4) farmers.

That makes up the bulk of voters in this country AFAICS. So when the media talk about the electotrate, its actually that 25% of the population who bother to even register to vote, and IMO substantially made up of those four I mentioned. Maybe there's something out there which state to the contrary, but thats my perceptions.

The other 75% of the population dont vote due to marginalization, realisation and disgust.

So, em, no. It wont change much along the lines of who people will vote for. Ireland is the land of gombeen politics after all.

--------------

It might be interesting to see what effect his resignation will have on the Lisburn Treaty and local elections, but again, the usual people will make up the bulk of voters and the rest wont bother. And so round and round we go.

Cowens face and voice tone might tip the balance towards FG come next election.

I dont have any faith in election politics at-all, especially having seen Joe Higgins lose his seat, Clare Daly not get elected, and grassroots socialist activist Joan Colins and her pal Brid Smith not getting elected either.

And then seeing some shmuck appear out of nowhere with a FF badge promising the world and talking crap get elected over these extremely dedicated on-the-ground people.

[Papa C.]

anticapitalist said:

What impact does anyone see Ahern's stepping down, having on F.F, could this be the start for a serious change in government at the next general election.

Ha ha, yeah right. Bertie is just part of a long line of filthy capitalists. People say he built up the country but who did he have to help kill and push into poverty to do this? In today's Ireland, even double income families with relatively good jobs can be impoverished. He got millions from the US government for helping them level Iraq, their infrastructure and put over 1million people 6 foot under. Some fucking help he's been to us.

I'd say the down turn in the economy would have more of an effect on FF. That would be to do with the influx of people into the country and and how they now have to deal with it after experts warned of creating ghettos full of immigrants as per in the USA. They talked about introducing green cards and such. This will slow the river of cheap workers coming into the country and buying/ renting properties in the country thus a drop in the economy.

As for Bertie, well he's been a perfect Charlie Haughy wannabe. Good riddance to bad rubbish! The problem is Cowan is as bad, or worse! Some democracy when only those in the Dail get to vote on the head honcho in the country. Where's our say?

[anticapitalist]

I suppose i should not have even started this thread, it makes my blood boil aswell, i did not think you'se would reply on it, but it was the total opposite, and some good oppinions aswell.
I don't think it is going to make much difference myself, who runs FF.
Ahern sure did give the yanks a free hand to murder with our help, and i'd say nothing will change on this with Cowen either, they said we could'nt have our cake and eat it, im sure Cowen gets to eat his, no malnourishment there.
We should have a say who leads the country i thought we might get an election out of it, and give the likes of Joe Higgins a shot at a seat again he is deadly, and a true socialist if ever there was one, it's a disaster without him there.


Don't get the wrong impression on me, but i just went to the FG meeting on the Lisbon treaty, tonight for a listen, i like to hear all sides, and i was going to vote yes on it, as i had this foolish belief that we could get a united Ireland from it some where along the line.
The FG, MEP and some economist, (who were there to encourage a yes vote aswell) speaking changed my mind in 2 hours, it is nothing but a joke, and it's no wonder Europe gave it to us to vote on, because they know we will do what we are told, by the parties.
I was nieve, and i overlooked it all over thinking about the united Ireland part, now i see it, this is nothing else other than about the yanks wanting to control Europe, and if it gets ratified, we are fucked, it will cause big trouble with Russia and Europe, among many other things, we will lose most of our laws aswell, so my apologies for my earlier ignorance about it.

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

The FG, MEP and some economist, (who were there to encourage a yes vote aswell) speaking changed my mind in 2 hours, it is nothing but a joke, and it's no wonder Europe gave it to us to vote on, because they know we will do what we are told, by the parties.

They were that bad they deconverted the converted? ;D

I was nieve, and i overlooked it all over thinking about the united Ireland part, now i see it, this is nothing else other than about the yanks wanting to control Europe, and if it gets ratified, we are fucked, it will cause big trouble with Russia and Europe, among many other things, we will lose most of our laws aswell, so my apologies for my earlier ignorance about it.

Iv attended some of the anti treaty meetings, and I have to be honest, and so far from what iv seen on the net - the arguments are a little bit weak against the treaty. To the point where the anti treaty side have had to make stuff up to bolster their argument.

And im still in the wilderness. I have never read the treaty, and I dont think id even be bothered.

But im against the EU becoming some sort of superstate with a combined military force, and im against the EU in general.

Also, I wouldnt trust FF or FG as far as I could, well, throw them.

I wouldnt vote yes to something that i dont know much about anyway.

[anticapitalist]

I did not read the treaty booklet myself yet, as it is all more or less written in legal type of form probably by solicitors, and i doubt even if the politicians read it and understand from cover to cover.
Over all it looks like the other big competition to the E.U, China, America, Australia and others prefer this to come into force, for trade reasons so they won't have to deal with individual member states commisioners in Brussels
i think that the commisioners who represent some smaller countries will be no longer needed,
if we vote yes, and it will be up to a few individuals elected by members of EU parliament to make decisions, so you could say it's a good thing, that Charlie Macreevy will not be acting on our behalf anymore, because he will have no say or power, it looks like we won't be allowed a representitive for 1 out of every 3 commision terms, so thats roughly no say for 5 out of every 15 years
I don't trust any of them either, but better the devil you know, we need him there at he moment, and if we lose this right we will be sorry
Afaik the whole idea of the EU was supposed to be a socialist ideology and to prevent any more wars in Europe,
now it is as much ununited than ever, with the minimum wage so varied from country to country,
and the Yanks having plans to put missile bases in Eastern countries, the likes of the Polish have troops in Iraq, when they are supposed to be part of the EU rapid reaction force, there is just so much that should be sorted out first,

really if we reject it we could keep the commisioners in place and get them to go back with all the things that need to be sorted first, a rejection wont stop Europe but it will give us a chance to send the Lisbon treaty back to the prime ministers and presidents, and tell them that we want a more democratic EU and not a less undemocratic one.
It suits America, China and other continents, for trade as they will only need approval from the few, EU individuals on the decisions, and not each countries main representing commisioner, so in effect it will be like a superstate with only a few calling all the shots, if the yanks get any control on them we will be under pressure from Russia,
i could be wrong on some of this, it is a huge step for us and Europe, and all the other large continents, i know this sounds funny but, if we vote no, it will send them a signal over there that we have not been bought by the 60 billion that we have recieved, so far.

[Papa C.]

Here is a flyer the SPI produced to try and sway people to vote no.



You can find more campaign flyers at - www.bebo.com/starryplough5/

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

This is a great flyer. Love Cowens facial expression ;D

[Papa C.]

A bunch of tossers! Please excuse the language.

[Stallit 2 de Halfo]

Especially Minister for Justice Lenihan, responsible for managing a justice system which puts less than fortunate, less than privi as himself young working class people away. Politics of the blood, a monarch if ever iv saw one.

[anticapitalist]

The flyer is brilliant and very well put together,
hope it gets distributed as much as possible.


Yeah the justice department has the biggest shower of whores ever, they kept us down very well through the decades,
it's a class war against them guards aswell they didnt give a fuck about our families/ parents, us ,or our kids

Well done again for that great flyer again keep up the excelent work

[anticapitalist]

There was a smoke alarm alert at Aherns hotel in Washington in the early hours, just a few hours before his speach to congress reports say a generator caused it, but the C.I.A bundled him into a car across the road from it, wonder was it a set up to quiz him? would love to have been a fly on the dash