Michael Collins - nay or yay

[Papa C.]

Hi Anti-Capitalist. Good to have you on the board. What that goes to show is that Collins didn't have a fully developed revolutionary ideal and, as a result, he failed. There are examples all over Irish history. I don't think supporting any kind of Government or ruling class could be described as a stepping stone though. Destruction of all ruling (as opposed to democratic) bodies should be the first step in any revolution.

[RedFlag32]

I agree,there can be no comprimise with the capitsalist class, they have to be crushed.

[anticapitalist]

He might have been chasing with the hounds and running with the fox, but it was very early stages, he was a great military man, and could have achieved total freedom if it was'nt for infiltration.

[RedFlag32]

I agree he could have achieved total freedom,but he was only ever going to take us so far. He was a militarist,a nationalist,not a socialist.

[anticapitalist]

Well we will never know how far he would have went for us now, he sacrifised his life for Ireland like so many others it's just a terrible shame,
that a lot of these men and women died by the bullets of ther own, when they could have been used against the enemy

[RedFlag32]

That is indeed a sad thought. However it wouldn't bother me if a person was Irish or not if he/she was a reactionary or counter revolutionary. If your alliegence lies with the working class then you should strike at all of the reactionaries, foriegn and home grown.

Collins deserve massive respect for what he done, he took on the might of the British army and got them to the negotiating table. However he did not beat them,and this is why he accepted the treaty aswell,he knew the IRA were done for,they had'nt enough ammo to last them another week. The Brit's knew what thy were coming away with from that "negotiation",and knew it well.

[ulstersocialist]

Ireland needs another truly cross community socialist figure. In its complacency, Ireland has overlooked a far more pressing enemy than the british imperialists, it's new homegrown beourgiose class and theocractic establishmentarianists.

While the dublin yuppies and big bosses guffaw over their champagne and rocketing property prices, the Irish working class are left with poor prospects and a second rate health service (RIP Susie Long)

Class awareness is sadly lacking. I've yet to see much in this part of the world, especially on my side of the religious barrier.

[RedFlag32]

I think the relevent peace that exsists in the 6 counties will mean that radical politics will be able to flourish comrade. It wont be as dangerous to be involved in cross community work for example. The recent commemoration of the dockers strike in belfast is one small example, in that i believe the PUP where represented alongside IRSP, SF and a few other republican and labour organisations.

[Papa C.]

UlsterSocialist, I agree with you about a cross community leading figure but a big problem with this is the Capitalist/ Imperialist propaganda system. Even if such a figure was to win the support of both the wider loyalist and Nationalist community (I take it as a given that such a person would be supported by leftists), it is important to remember that the capitalist propaganda system is vast and powerful and now has the backing of those widely believed to be Republicans (even though they’re not by definition). There should be a special effort, by any revolutionary organisation, to discredit or/ and expose the lies and hypocrisy of the mainstream media which is at the relative disposal of the ruling peoples.