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Post by southarmaghceltic on May 8, 2007 0:07:42 GMT
Hey guys. I was just wondering the main purpose of this forum. I was wondering if this is more of a forum to educate people on Irish Socialism or to support the Republican movement. I know there very similar but I just was just curious of the main purpose.
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Post by Papa C. on May 8, 2007 20:06:55 GMT
Hey guys. I was just wondering the main purpose of this forum. I was wondering if this is more of a forum to educate people on Irish Socialism or to support the Republican movement. I know there very similar but I just was just curious of the main purpose. The main purpose is to educate people about the Irish struggle. The Irish struggle is a socialist one and a Socialist Republic is the ONLY solution to Ireland's problems, not unionism, not power sharing. Through Unionism and power sharing we will always and only be lapdogs to the British Government (just like Bertie, isn't he like groupie around Tony Blair? How sad!). As an Irish hero once put it - 'unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.
England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.
England would still rule you to your ruin, even while your lips offered hypocritical homage at the shrine of that Freedom whose cause you had betrayed.
Nationalism without Socialism – without a reorganisation of society on the basis of a broader and more developed form of that common property which underlay the social structure of Ancient Erin - is only national recreancy.
It would be tantamount to a public declaration that our oppressors had so far succeeded in inoculating us with their perverted conceptions of justice and morality that we had finally decided to accept those conceptions as our own, and no longer needed an alien army to force them upon us.' - this is just what Sinn Fein have done today. Shame on them! The Republican movement can only succeed by establishing an all-Ireland Socialist Republic. Anything less is a sell out to our comrades both north and south and also those who support the movement all over the world. It is a sell out to the protestant, the catholic, the hungerstirkers, Irish Revolutionaries all through history, the asian community, the polish community, the european fighters who came to our aid in 1916. We ARE the Republican movement. Those who struggle for an Irish Republic - a country set up BY working people, FOR working people - through whatever means are Irish Republicans. Those who go into Government with the oppressor and supporters of Imperialism can only call themselves reactionaries. Ó Conghaile go breagh!
Saoirse go deo!
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Post by Seabird on May 8, 2007 20:34:15 GMT
I find that statement very interesting indeed! So it is for the people by the people? And through WHATEVER means right? Then how can you call a group that is supported by the majority of the people on the island a sell out if they are doing as the people have asked? This is not a dictatorship is it?? I have a quote for you, I can only hope you really ponder the quote and what I have said before you respond!
"When a person places the proper value on freedom, there is nothing under the sun that he will not do to acquire that freedom. Whenever you hear a man saying he wants freedom, but in the next breath he is going to tell you what he won't do to get it, or what he doesn't believe in doing in order to get it, he doesn't believe in freedom. A man who believes in freedom will do anything under the sun to acquire . . . or preserve his freedom." Malcolm X
Think about that please.
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on May 8, 2007 20:47:42 GMT
Im afraid it is a dictatroship, a dictatorship of capital, the bourgeois system and its class.
What else can it be? - a "democracy".
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Post by RedFlag32 on May 8, 2007 20:55:17 GMT
I think Caoimhain was talking about PSF when he was talking about sell outs,they are certainly not supported by the majority of the people on this island. if he was talking about FF im sure he ment that they are a sell out to the workng class struggle and the republican one,which they still call themselves. Just because they are supported by a majority doesnt mean they cant sell out a political Ideal. Could you explan the relevence of that quote to what Caoimhain said? |
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Post by RedFlag32 on May 8, 2007 20:57:07 GMT
Hey guys. I was just wondering the main purpose of this forum. I was wondering if this is more of a forum to educate people on Irish Socialism or to support the Republican movement. I know there very similar but I just was just curious of the main purpose. Hey mate welcome to the forum,the purpose is to educate others on the ideals of republican socialism and hopefully be a starting point for an online community of comrades who have the same goals politically.Education and countering the black propaganda is something we hold very dearly in the struggle for working class emancipation in Ireland and world wide. |
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frankryan
Comrade
I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
Posts: 8
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Post by frankryan on May 9, 2007 12:05:04 GMT
This is not a dictatorship is it?? We live in a dictatorship as it is, the only input people have in society is a simple vote (which literally takes two minutes) to vote in a person they've probably dont know personally, have never met and more than likely has total different views than themselves. They are then stuck with this person making decisions on their behalf for the benefit of himself and his party for five years. In other words a five year dictatorship. Do you call that democratic seabird? Most people are in support of the people of rossport in the whole "shell to sea" spectacle but the 'government' refuse to heed the people's opinion or views, on the contrary they use their 'boys in blue' to attack these people, do you call that democratic. I could go and on. See your problem is seabird is that you think within the staus quo, think outside the box and question everything. |
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Post by Papa C. on May 9, 2007 13:26:36 GMT
I find that statement very interesting indeed! So it is for the people by the people? And through WHATEVER means right? Then how can you call a group that is supported by the majority of the people on the island a sell out if they are doing as the people have asked? This is not a dictatorship is it?? I have a quote for you, I can only hope you really ponder the quote and what I have said before you respond! "When a person places the proper value on freedom, there is nothing under the sun that he will not do to acquire that freedom. Whenever you hear a man saying he wants freedom, but in the next breath he is going to tell you what he won't do to get it, or what he doesn't believe in doing in order to get it, he doesn't believe in freedom. A man who believes in freedom will do anything under the sun to acquire . . . or preserve his freedom." Malcolm X Think about that please. Sinn Fein are not supported by the majority of the people on this Island. The Irish people have never asked Sinn Fein to give up the fight for freedom and join in a coalition with those who have fought against Irish liberation for 100's of years. I would be surprised if MalcomX would support those who would stand solid with fascists, friends of the KKK and imperialists in order to achieve freedom Seabird. Selling-out is in fact doing nothing for freedom, as opposed to 'anything'. Selling out is ceasing to fight for freedom. More to the point it is a step backward. I apologise if I didn't make my statements clear enough for those who clearly have an agenda and have obviously come here to take cheap shots and nit-pick. I don't think it's very constructive to do this and it holds us back from any progress we could be making. Is that your intention? |
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Post by Papa C. on May 9, 2007 13:40:06 GMT
This is not a dictatorship is it?? We live in a dictatorship as it is, the only input people have in society is a simple vote (which literally takes two minutes) to vote in a person they've probably dont know personally, have never met and more than likely has total different views than themselves. They are then stuck with this person making decisions on their behalf for the benefit of himself and his party for five years. In other words a five year dictatorship. Do you call that democratic seabird? Most people are in support of the people of rossport in the whole "shell to sea" spectacle but the 'government' refuse to heed the people's opinion or views, on the contrary they use their 'boys in blue' to attack these people, do you call that democratic. I could go and on. See your problem is seabird is that you think within the staus quo, think outside the box and question everything. Nice post comrade and welcome to the board. Many people don't even vote because there is no alternative. Do you know that those registered to vote only amounts to about 1.2million? Isn't there 4 million people in the 26 counties? There's 6 parties and a few independents, those 6 parties are all shouting about who will raise or lower taxes most. They are all capitalist parties who have very very slightly different policies. We want an alternative, not more of the same. I'll pay tax if it's spent on the people. What I don't agree with is the people paying billions in tax and never seeing that money again! Where's our money? Tax should be an investment in the future, an investment in health, education, infrastructure, and future planning. Not a payment to having the pleasure of living in the country and that Government spending money on security for visits by the capitalist friends! |
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Post by RedFlag32 on May 9, 2007 18:08:10 GMT
think outside the box and question everything. Excellent advice comrade. thats how every Socialist should live thier lives. |
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Post by southarmaghceltic on May 9, 2007 21:04:42 GMT
well thanks for answering my question. I was also wondering if everyone here are supporters of the peace process thats going on now. I really dont support it at all or the provos. Thanks for your input.
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Post by dangeresque on May 9, 2007 21:34:47 GMT
I find that statement very interesting indeed! So it is for the people by the people? And through WHATEVER means right? Then how can you call a group that is supported by the majority of the people on the island a sell out if they are doing as the people have asked? This is not a dictatorship is it?? I have a quote for you, I can only hope you really ponder the quote and what I have said before you respond! So the Irish Republicans who carried on after the Civil War and Treaty were wrong, too? Despite popular support, the vote for the peace process is not an exercise in democracy at all. The GFA had a pre-determined outcome. There was never any alternative but to accept British rule and the unionist veto. No other option was given, so there was in actuality no means for the Irish people to make a meaninful choice - so self-determination was shelved yet again. This has been more an excercise in shaping an outcome that was long ago decided upon by bourgeois politicians than what SF spins it as - some kind of new strategy or tactic, or 'new phase in the struggle' and so on. Bakunin once called this 'beating the people with their own stick.' The form of democracy is offered to the working class but any genuine democratic content, such as the masses having a role in shaping content is not. Bourgeois democracy is a sham, and we have to expose that truth every chance we get. |
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