|
|
Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jul 17, 2007 0:05:55 GMT
I came across this song on youtube..... youtube.com/watch?v=50Tob3ZmGFw"Irish ways and Irish laws". Dont get me wrong - its a lovely song, but I think Christy plays strait into the far-right audience with this one. Id say theyd use it as their "anthem" if they heard it. "Villages of Irish blood" "Irish ways" "Irish laws" "tried to change our living" I cant believe he wrote something like this. I know he's left wing - a song like this is a mistake IMO though. Am I getting this all wrong? - am I overstating its relevence to the far-right? |
|
john
Comrade
Posts: 13
|
Post by john on Jul 17, 2007 2:31:39 GMT
Never considered it that way but do you mean that the people depicted in the song would fight outside culture? I always caught it as the people could not be stamped out by the will of another. Though you got me looking into it.... findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20001105/ai_n14519126/pg_1Christy Moore: As long as the so entrenched RUC's attitude to Sunday Mirror, Nov 5, 2000 by DONNA CARTON part of that article: " When Moore was a member of the band Moving Hearts, they sang a John Gibbs song, Irish Ways and Irish Laws, which became popular in pubs and clubs. The song brought what Moore describes as "fierce criticism" but even now he defends it. The song begins: "Once upon a time there was Irish ways and Irish laws "Villages of Irish blood waking to the morning. " "Then the Vikings came around, turned us up and turned us down." And so it goes through Cromwell and "centuries of shame" and hopes for one day "the gates being opened up to a people and their freedom". Cries of "fascism" and "Hearts support ethnic cleansing" greeted the song. But Moore is adamant that's not what the song was about. "I never saw the song that way and I still don't," he said. The ethnic cleansing charge was the "cry of the safe-bet brigade," he said. " Lyrics... www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/i/irishway.html |
|
|
|
Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jul 17, 2007 19:13:35 GMT
Interesting article!, I guess im not the only one to come to that sort of conclusion listening to it.
There's a few things which I feel appeal to the far right in it. Firstly, he makes significance of "race" by mentioning "Irish blood".
The song is all about "a great past" when Ireland was happy, pure and dandy - an element of far right ideology is the "restoration" and reflection on how great the nation was in the past before foreign "invaders" made the nation weak through racial mixing. I think he sketched that out nicely in the song.
Another element of far right ideology is the "rule of law", also mentioned in the song.
I cant really see anything progressive in the song, or even anything reflecting Christy's left wing position - its such a departure - and thats why im surprised.
Im not exactly sure how you mean fighting outside culture? But, im sure im missing the actual meaning of the song - but at first sight, and without reading any explanation - thats the conclusion im sure most would draw.
|
|
|
|
Post by Seabird on Jul 18, 2007 11:32:43 GMT
Wow just to show how people think differently, I always liked the song because it shows 800 years of resistance, the refusal to lie down. I was given his box set and that is one of the songs in it. As for outside the culture, I see it as us liking a few beers and a good argument or possible wee fist fight in the pub but all these years it has been guns and bombs. That is not Irish culture. Generally Irish are known for being friendly, neighborly. Atleast that is my take on it.
|
|
john
Comrade
Posts: 13
|
Post by john on Jul 18, 2007 17:55:34 GMT
When I mentioned culture, " Irish Ways and Irish Laws" not an invader's laws and/or version of manners. Resistant to that culture " they tried to change our living " and " we are a river flowing ".
Villages of Irish blood? I don't know, one could probably spin that one with any sort of pride of association or way of thought. Villages of workers' blood waking to the morning. Then the imperialists came around.... Know what I mean? If that Irish blood was not invaded, trampled, used, abused and some driven out but sought out for friendship and alliance well we wouldn't have this song/history.
I find it as a bard's song of history, not right or left just a song. Now I am not well versed in all the schools of thought regarding left or right but I would consider some on the left would still advocate a rule of law? The strictness of that law, how it is enforced and does it represent the " party alone" or the people would indicate right or left. Right?
|
|
|
|
Post by dangeresque on Jul 18, 2007 18:47:51 GMT
Interesting article!, I guess im not the only one to come to that sort of conclusion listening to it. There's a few things which I feel appeal to the far right in it. Firstly, he makes significance of "race" by mentioning "Irish blood". The song is all about "a great past" when Ireland was happy, pure and dandy - an element of far right ideology is the "restoration" and reflection on how great the nation was in the past before foreign "invaders" made the nation weak through racial mixing. I think he sketched that out nicely in the song. Another element of far right ideology is the "rule of law", also mentioned in the song. I cant really see anything progressive in the song, or even anything reflecting Christy's left wing position - its such a departure - and thats why im surprised. Im not exactly sure how you mean fighting outside culture? But, im sure im missing the actual meaning of the song - but at first sight, and without reading any explanation - thats the conclusion im sure most would draw. It's not right wing, in fact it's if anything the opposite. I understand your concern with some of the words giving the impression of blood and soil nationalism, but actually similar themes were expressed by Marx, James Connolly and Engels. If Christy Moore were calling for a racially pure Ireland and advocating people go back to the clan life, you'd be correct but he isn't. Basically the argument goes that ancient Ireland before the Norman / English conquest wasn't fuedel and still had collective property. In fact Ireland was moving towards fuedelist relations on its own (especially under Brian Boru who accelerated accumulation of land and began the tradition of surnames) however alongside this there still existed collective property owned by each clan/sept and held in trust by the elected chief. And the Brehon laws were popular throughout Gaelic society, up until the defeat at the Boyne and these laws provided for the maintenance of the poor through hospitals and even welfare schemes. Some comrades argue that the initial Norman invasion was actually progressive as it accelerated the slow process of Ireland turning fuedelist. I don't quite agree but it's interesting to see it from both sides. Anyway, the Christy Moore song is no different than saying that for instance American Indians were free (that is they didn't exploit each other to accumulate private wealth) before European settlers murdered them or took their land. |
|
|
|
Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jul 18, 2007 20:38:45 GMT
I guess im on my own with this one ;D
Im missing the point of the song of course (because CM isnt a nazi) - its just the impression I got from listening to it and thought others might see it being interpreted this way by thick ass hitlerites.
As i said - its a lovely song and I cant get it out of my head im humming it that much!
|
|
|
|
Post by dangeresque on Jul 18, 2007 21:28:12 GMT
I guess im on my own with this one ;D Im missing the point of the song of course (because CM isnt a nazi) - its just the impression I got from listening to it and thought others might see it being interpreted this way by thick ass hitlerites. As i said - its a lovely song and I cant get it out of my head im humming it that much! that's a valid point. fash are already trying to do just that. |
|
|
|
Post by RedFlag32 on Jul 18, 2007 22:15:33 GMT
Ah leave christy alone,he is my idol  RM you were at his gig last year i Vicar werent you? What you think of the night? |
|
|
|
Post by RedFlag32 on Jul 18, 2007 22:24:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Jul 18, 2007 22:39:43 GMT
I wish I was ;D No, havnt been to see him yet.
I dont know if he's still up to the job of performing.
|
|
|
|
Post by RedFlag32 on Jul 19, 2007 20:42:56 GMT
I wish I was ;D No, havnt been to see him yet. I dont know if he's still up to the job of performing. Are you serious? jesus man,go and watch him belt out ordinary man and tell me he isnt up for performing the man is older now,agreed,but he gives every song 100%, he stopped half way through a song in vicar street last year because he wasnt "feeling" it and then at the end when he was obviously geared up he belted it out properly again. If this isnt the behavour of a man who is serious about performing i dont know what is. ;D |
|
RM you were at his gig last year i Vicar werent you? What you think of the night?