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Post by dangeresque on Nov 22, 2007 9:42:09 GMT
I didn't know until Liam O Ruairc told me, but zombie films were made as an allegory to the culture and mindset of consumerism... now I that I was told I realise it's obvious, and everyone knew that except me.  Anyway, I'm wondering if the film/s about the CHUD (Cannabilistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers) represents the lumpenproletariat? They live in the sewers and are disgusting subhumans that will attack anyone. The lumpenproles are the criminal/parasitic class that mirrors the bourgeoisie in their lack of loyalty, are devoid principles, will do ANYTHING for money, etc. So YES or NO?! VOTE!!! |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 22, 2007 20:17:05 GMT
The Lumpen typically come from "council estates" or what is known wrongfully as "working class areas" yes? I think the use of the phraze "working class revolution" gives the impretion-certanly in Ireland-that it is a "council estate"revolution and those not from these areas but who are also working class are afriad of this as they wrongfully associate these estates solely with the lumpen. Shud we use the phraze "workers revolution" instead then? Now have i had too much coffee or am i on to something? haha
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Post by Papa C. on Nov 22, 2007 20:51:46 GMT
They live in the sewers and are disgusting subhumans that will attack anyone. The lumpenproles are the criminal/parasitic class that mirrors the bourgeoisie in their lack of loyalty, are devoid principles, will do ANYTHING for money, etc. Disguisting subhumans that will attack anyone? Criminal/ parasitic? Sounds more like the ruling classes to me. It certainly could be possible that the writer was trying to convey that idea though. Stuck up fe**er that he must be! |
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Nov 22, 2007 20:57:22 GMT
No. Just to be different. ;D
Didnt the black panther party have a different view on the lumpenproletariat?
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 22, 2007 21:18:19 GMT
No. Just to be different. ;D Didnt the black panther party have a different view on the lumpenproletariat? The BPP leadership were workers, I know that Huey Newton and Bobby Seale attended community college (a working class version of a university), and most their members were workers. I've read the autobiography of Assata, and she was also working class. But you're correct - they tried to orient themselves, at least in rhetoric towards lumpens. That's one of the reasons they fell apart. They survived the FBI death squads, but tore themselves apart!  By lumpens, I do not meet unemployed workers, people on the dole. We mean professional criminals, scum who mostly prey on other working class people, hence the cannabilistic aspect... |
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Post by Papa C. on Nov 22, 2007 21:44:30 GMT
I've always seen the lumpen-proletariat as the likes of prostitutes, the homeless, people who can't get a job and have to fight to get a bit of cash to live. I wouldn't nessecarily call them scum, just victims of capitalism or victims of circumstance.
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Post by Stallit 2 de Halfo on Nov 23, 2007 0:59:15 GMT
I thought the noose was getting tighter there - what a relief ;D
So would you say that those who took part in the Loveulster riots were lumpen? - I point you towards the analysis on indymedia which id pretty much agree with...
That those who took part were "disenfranchised youth with nothing to lose and nothing to fear".
Didnt that riot show that non-workers can act in political ways - not in a politically conscious way - but out of their sheer underlying hatred they have for the system, a sort of expression of frustration, that only needs a trigger and guidance.
I think id have to disagree with you here. Arnt prostitutes workers who sell their labour for a wage?
Sure, its illegal (I personally think it should be legal) - but that dosnt change their class relation.
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 23, 2007 4:48:45 GMT
Lumpens can be revolutionary sure, but usually they're not. If we can use them for the revolution, that's great. But realisitically we won't be able to - a charactaristic of the lumpens is that they tend to reject discipline.
The Love Ulster riots were a good example of them in action: they quickly branched out to assault immigrants for example.
The definition of a lumpen is someone outside the legit economy. NOT unemployed workers.
Anyway, I'm not mocking all people who are lumpen, I help the homeless and care about them, but I have a deep deep hatred of criminals/gangsters/drug dealers that prey on the working class, out of personal experience.
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Post by Papa C. on Nov 23, 2007 8:18:07 GMT
The definition of a lumpen is someone outside the legit economy. NOT unemployed workers. Aaaaahhhhhh but what is the 'legit' economy? Have I blown your mind yet? ;D I think prostitutes are considered Lumpen in Marxist philosophy, that is why I mention it. There is no doubt that they work outside the legit economy but they obviously pay VAT and other taxes in their daily lives though purchases and what not. You can't escape the tax officials! |
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Post by dangeresque on Nov 23, 2007 9:41:38 GMT
The definition of a lumpen is someone outside the legit economy. NOT unemployed workers. Aaaaahhhhhh but what is the 'legit' economy? Have I blown your mind yet? ;D hahahahahaha. that jsut reminded me of the best film ever, teledega nights: "did that blow your mind? That just happened!" YOu have a good point about how they are still caught up in paying taxes, etc. In that case,t hey wouldn't be lumpen. more importantly, what they do is not in any way parasitic. the behaviour of gangsters and drug dealers is nearly canabilistic... hence my personal criteria for a lumpen! |
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 23, 2007 23:47:22 GMT
Lumpens are victims of capitalist society,just as the Petit-bourgeoisie are. That doesn't get away from the reality that this class of people exsist and we must realise there relation to the class struggle,victims or not.
I dont personally put homeless people or people on the dole in this category,i may be wrong here but thats my own opinion.
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Post by RedFlag32 on Nov 24, 2007 0:12:22 GMT
On the subject of the love ulster protest,it was organised by RSF andthats who they attract,lumpens wit no political direction.
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